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June 30, 2002
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The Europen Left does not support Democracy, nor Women and Gay rights

I have just sent an email to a friend from Finland, Max, describing why I think the European left is not being honest when it says it supports Democracy, or Women and Gay rights.

My main point is that if you are an European leftist (not necessarily communist), you are automatically against Israel. You don’t care about the historical context, the almost daily Palestinian homicide/suicide bombers, the Palestinians refusal of peace and of Israel’s right to exist, etc…

Now that I think of it, this was also typical of European communists who didn’t care about the atrocities committed by the USSR and always gave the Russian communists their unconditional support.

The European left does not care about women, independent judiciaries, minorities, democracy, gays or almost anything else it supposedly supports. That is why the left opposed America's war in Afghanistan, which liberated women from being treated like animals.

Nearly all the causes the left speaks for are noble-sounding covers for its real agenda -- the overthrowing of Western, especially Judeo-Christian and capitalist, values.

I copy the full thread below.

-----Original Message-----
From: David Melle [news@factsofisrael.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 7:10 PM
To: x
Subject: The European left is not humanitarian (was 'European Leftism')

Hello Max,

Let me address some of your points:

>Hey! It is not me who confused it! It was David who started to mention communism. I think, as you say,
>that communism has nothing to do with European leftism any more!

1) First I never mentioned that only communists are against Israel. My exact words were “you support Third-Worldism, neo-communism, or neo-leftism, whom Taguieff lumps together as the "anti-globalization movement”.

The neo-leftism includes communists, but also socialists and so called “European humanitarians” (more on that below). My point is that if you are an European leftist (not necessarily communist), you are automatically against Israel. You don’t care about the historical context, the almost daily Palestinian homicide/suicide bombers, the Palestinians refusal of peace and of Israel’s right to exist, etc… Now that I think of it, this was also typical of European communists who didn’t care about the atrocities committed by the USSR and always gave the Russian communists their unconditional support.

>Who are those who speak about human rights and who denounce the
>situations where those are violated? They are the "leftists"!

2) No they do not denounce all human rights – that’s exactly one of my main points against the European left. European leftists only care about human rights that serve their cause. If they really denounced all human rights:

a) We would hear strong condemnations when Palestinians deliberately kill unarmed Israeli civilians. Why can’t I find articles that describe the human side of Israeli victims in the European leftist press? Please show me articles that are similar to:

Living with the threat of a Palestinian genocide bombing (US, CNN)

Israeli Paramedic cries when seeing babies burning after Palestinian homicide bombings (US, CNN)

b) We would have the European left support the United Nations in a “Fact Finding Mission” after the massacre of 29 Israeli civilians that were trying to eat dinner when a Palestinian homicide/suicide bomber decided they didn’t deserve to live. Similar support for fact finding missions should have occurred after the dozens of homicide/suicide bombings since October 2000. See:

16-year old girl murdered by Palestinian homicide bomber

Palestinian terrorist kills Israeli mother and 3 of her children, including a 5-year-old boy (Israel, Jerusalem Post)

Instead the European left and the “humanitarians” condemn Israel for going after the murderers from above. They then decide that armed Palestinian men fighting back do deserve a “Fact Finding Mission”. In my point of view, and most Israelis and Americans would probably agree with me, the European left lost any credibility it had. See

The silence of the United Nations is Deafening

>Nowadays, who are the people who want more direct democracy, more direct voting systems, more power to all people and not only to the leaders?

3) Once again, the European left claims it wants more power to the people, but that is simply not true:

a) Israel is a true democracy (see http://www.factsofisrael.com/democracy2.html ) as opposed to all of its Arab and Muslim enemies. Yasser Arafat is precisely the self-aggrandizing, corrupt dictator-type that the left claims to hold in contempt. Yet the European left supports the thugs from the Palestinian Authority.

b) The European left claims to have particular concern for women's rights. Yet it is Israel that has as highly developed a feminist movement as that of any Western country. It is Israel that conscripted women into its armed forces before almost any Western country. At the same time, the state of women's rights among Israel's Muslim enemies is perhaps the lowest in the world.

c) The left's supports gay rights. Yet it is Israel that has annual gay pride days (last week there was a Gay Parade in Tel-Aviv), while Egypt and other Arab and Muslim countries arrest homosexuals.

So, why isn't the European left out there leading pro-Israel demonstrations? The answer is as important as it is contemptible.

The European left does not care about women, independent judiciaries, minorities, democracy, gays or almost anything else it supposedly supports. That is why the left opposed America's war in Afghanistan, which liberated women from being treated like animals.

Nearly all the causes the left speaks for are noble-sounding covers for its real agenda -- the overthrowing of Western, especially Judeo-Christian and capitalist, values (some of the above arguments I took from “Why is the left hostile to Israel?” - http://www.factsofisrael.com/load.php?p=/blog/archives/000131.html )

Take a look at some of the marches Tristan mentioned:

(a) two anti-capitalist protests, the main one being on 1 May this year
[Location: Oxford Circus, Trafalgar Square]
(f) anti war against Afganistan
[Location: outside Downing Street]
(g) Closure of 15th century market to make way for a merchant bank
[Location: Spitalfields]
(h) Anti World Trade Bank, re: third world debt
[Location: Canning Town, City of London]

Do you see a pattern? He’s clearly anti-capitalist, anti-American, and therefore anti-Israeli. Human rights, Democracy, and gay rights do not enter the equation.

Max, in a much more moderate way, you support the Palestinian cause for the same reasons. In your case though there seems to be a genuine thirst for dialog and understanding.

Maybe there’s hope for the European left after all. ;-)

Bye,

David Melle
dmelle@FactsOfIsrael.com
http://www.factsofisrael.com/
For a free weekly newsletter, check http://www.factsofisrael.com/newsletter2.html
For a free screensaver, check http://www.factsofisrael.com/screensaver2.html

-----Original Message-----
From: max m.
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 12:13 AM
To: x
Subject: [x] European Leftism

Thanks, Pinkas, for the site www.conceptwizard.com/conflict.html which I have read. A good presentation. I will comment it later, returning to the main topic.

But meanwhile, a side topic about David's message to Steve.

This will be long! Try to read until the end!

EUROPEAN LEFTISM

"Message: 3
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 13:51:57 -0700
From: "David Melle"
Subject: RE: No similarity whatsoever

...

How do you explain your complete bias and
anti-Israeli positions? I say you are either:

1) Anti-Semitic – ...
2) An European Leftist - you support Third-Worldism, neo-communism, or
neo-leftism, whom Taguieff lumps together as the "anti-globalization
movement." The Chomskyites, . . . the people who think Empire is a good
book. If you ask them why, of all the dozen conflicts the Muslim world is
waging against the civilizations it borders on, this one obsesses them (why
not Chechnya? why not Sudan? why not Nigeria?), they give you this answer:
Israel-Palestine is the one where the "capitalist" world of the West (and,
by implication, the Jews who run it) meets the underprivileged victim
peoples of the South. Jews thus get to pay the price for the West's
depredations since the Middle Ages, most of which they were on the receiving
end of.
3) Arab or Muslim – ..."


I have much to comment here!

Background: Until the middle 1990's, "leftism" was something negative to me, due to the non-democratic regimes in the Warsaw pact countries, USSR imperialism against some of our closest neighbours, the many happenings after 1948 in Eastern Europe like invasions in Budapest 1956 and Prague 1968, plus the agressivity of socialism against private ownership, with its negative economical impacts... Moderate "leftism" like social-democracy feeled a bit "pupilage" too...

But during my student life, when approaching environmentalist organisations, I learned to know also modern "leftism" much better. I have dealed very much in my head about the relation between "rightism" and "leftism", and it is an endless, and very interesting subject to debate. Some say this dualism does not exist any more. I believe it still exist, but it has changed its shape very much since the fall of the Walls.

Before, Western European "leftism" was sympathy to the Eastern Bloc, which had not any political pluralism or real democracy. That sympathy took its energy from the need to criticize the capitalistic world. While "rightism" was supporting the Western way of life and its democracy, plus to have the most possible individual rights to do what you want, which citizens in the Eastern countries could not have. Individuals had to have the right to get rich, the equality of everybody was not the main meaning. However, rightism supported welfare states, either by own goodness, either by fear of the alternatives: communistic systems... So, "rightism" was more close to democracy, in my eyes.

Then the Iron Curtain fell down. What happened after it? There was no communistic systems any more, except in Cuba, China and North Korea. Not in Europe. (Although quite many countries did not become democratic for that, but that is another story.)

***
Nowadays, who are the people who want more direct democracy, more direct voting systems, more power to all people and not only to the leaders? Who are those who speak about human rights and who denounce the situations where those are violated? They are the "leftists"! While the "rightists" do not care if everything is decided in cabinets between the governments and the multinational companies. They do not care with whom you make business, as long as there is benefits for the own company or country.
***

So I think there is nothing wrong with European "neo-leftism". It is certainly a MUCH better ideology than the old "leftism", which was related to communism, or with sympathy towards it.

David says leftists do not denounce human right violations equally. Before, in the 1970's, this might have been true. But nowadays, I think every human right violation is denounced, in every part of the world! Most of the human rights crisis in the world are denounced: Chechnya, Kurdistan, Sudan, China, NIGERIA!!! (Ken Saro-Wiwa...) Of course, some people are more interested by certain crisis than of others, unavoidable. Why do the "rightist" organisations not care about denouncing ANY human right crisis in the world?!

Certainly many human right organisations want to concentrate on those crisis where the Western money plays a role. Because in those cases, something might be improved already from the European homeland. Or at least, it makes Western people aware of the responsibility, instead of continuing to think that it is only those niggers' business. Oh yes, merchants who deal with communistic China have been criticised! As well as Western oil companies in Moslem world...

This does not mean that the other crises would not be as worrying.

And Israel? Actually, there is no way ISRAEL could represent the negative sides of the capitalistic world! Israel is not so capitalistic, I suppose. For instance, it has kibbutz systems. And I do not know any Israeli multi-national companies... while Arab countries are run by authoritary kings, cheikhs and others, and there is not as much equality between their citizens.

IF there however exists any bias by the "leftists" in the Israel-Palestine question, there might be explanations like these:

1) Israel is a state and makes information through its governmental points of view. Palestinians have no state. There is a non-equal situation "David against Goliath". And if we look outside that, when Israel seems to be the "David" against the other Arab states, it is still a conflict between states, where the militarily strong Israel is not so weak at all and may be does not need defence from abroad... To have more sympathy towards the "weak" is namely one characteristic of European neo-leftism.

(As Steve mentioned, the situation can change when Palestinians are allowed their own state. You can be sure there will be more critics then!)

2) The information which comes from Israel is made mainly (I think?) by official governmental sources, which traditionally are quite non-reliable in a "neo-leftist's" opinion, compared to all possible grass-root sources. Perhaps it is therefore that the Independent takes news from Arab and Jew grass-root or individuals, but NOT from Israeli government sources, which Pinkas requested some weeks ago. Also Tristán is right: grass-root sources ARE "independent" compared to governmental sources. Whether they are always better, is another question.

(There is a Finnish paper called Voima ("Force"), which is issued 8 times a year. It also tries to speak of "the things which the bigger newspapers do not mention", which requests more grass-root sources and less governmental sources. But it takes news from news agencies also, like the ones which examine USA's former support to Osama bin Laden, when they still were friends...)

3) Israel is supported by USA, towards which leftists, or Europeans in general, always are suspicious.

You can be sure, David, that European leftists are the last ones who are anti-semites!!! I have not heard complaints that rich Jews are the one who rule Europe. But, I have heard complaints that Jews are the ones who rule the US foreign policy in the Middle East.

One main idea of neo-leftism might also be, that no affairs are only internal affairs. You are allowed to criticize everything, especially "strong" oppressing "weak". AND, to say the things which the official sources do not say. This means, if official sources criticise only "terrorists" but not "governments", somebody haves to do the opposite. And everybody always feels that the "other side" has too strong influence towards the media (tv, radio, newspapers)!

BUT: Neo-leftism has nothing to do with communism! Why do you David call neo-leftists neo-communists?! Their social ideology is much closer to social-democracy and has NOTHING to do with the communistic dictatorial system, which sent people to forced work camps in Siberia!!!

Give your opinions on all this, please!

Max, Helsinki, Finland

-----Original Message-----
From: David Melle [mailto:news@factsofisrael.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 1:52 PM
To: x
Subject: RE: [x] No similarity whatsoever

Steve,

You conveniently ignored all of my previous two questions about the Palestinians slaughter of unarmed Israeli civilians and their wish for the destruction of Israel. Did you ever find an equivalent of the Islamic Jihad in the Polish resistance?

You are the one that ignores the issues. Instead of answering my questions, you got personal and attacked me, not for my links proving that Israel’s military actions in the disputed territories have nothing to do with Nazi Germany’s invasion of Poland, but for allegedly calling you an Anti-Semite.

Since you attacked me, let me tell you what I think of your arguments. How do you explain your insistence in comparing Israel to Nazi Germany without answering my questions? How do you explain your complete bias and anti-Israeli positions? I say you are either:

1) Anti-Semitic – not liking Jews you certainly don’t like the Jewish State. This is a valid argument even if it makes you uncomfortable.
2) An European Leftist - you support Third-Worldism, neo-communism, or neo-leftism, whom Taguieff lumps together as the "anti-globalization movement." The Chomskyites, . . . the people who think Empire is a good book. If you ask them why, of all the dozen conflicts the Muslim world is waging against the civilizations it borders on, this one obsesses them (why not Chechnya? why not Sudan? why not Nigeria?), they give you this answer: Israel-Palestine is the one where the "capitalist" world of the West (and, by implication, the Jews who run it) meets the underprivileged victim peoples of the South. Jews thus get to pay the price for the West's depredations since the Middle Ages, most of which they were on the receiving end of.
3) Arab or Muslim – After years of brainwashing you hate all Jews and Israel – see the latest examples:
a. Palestinian children idealize murderers and terrorists
http://www.factsofisrael.com/load.php?p=/blog/archives/000106.html
b. Iman of the Mosque of Mecca calls Jews "pigs and monkeys"
http://www.factsofisrael.com/load.php?p=/blog/archives/000102.html
c. Anti-Semitism in the Arab Press
http://www.factsofisrael.com/load.php?p=/blog/archives/000010.html

I say YOUR arguments are invalid. You don’t respond to my questions, ignore all of my previous points and simply because you feel hurt that I uncover your moral disgrace, you attack me.

Well, fortunately for Jews and Israelis, we are not taking your lies, accusations and violence anymore. We’ll continue to fight for our survival, and we’ll continue to denounce the European bias and support for Palestinian terrorism and their wish to destroy Israel.

Bye,

David Melle
dmelle@FactsOfIsrael.com
http://www.factsofisrael.com/
For a free weekly newsletter, check http://www.factsofisrael.com/newsletter2.html
For a free screensaver, check http://www.factsofisrael.com/screensaver2.html

Posted by David Melle at June 30, 2002 07:32 PM
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